Sacred Harp, a Fair Attraction

At the Central East Texas Fair held in Marshall, Harrison County, Texas, September 18-22, 1928, Sacred Harp singing was one of the attractions.

Timpson Weekly Times, Friday, September 14, 1928, p. 4

Singing in Tatum, 1981

Back in 1981, our Sacred Harp Convention met at the Cafeteria at Tatum High School. Ed Craig was the chairman and Alcie Craig was the secretary. Old singers from my grandparents’ generation were still around then.

The Marshall News Messenger, Sunday, August 2, 1981, p. 3A

Grimes-Allen Discussion. When?

By June 14, 1928 John Harvey Grime had published a new 71-page booklet title A Discussion Between J. H. Grime and James A. Allen. Grime was Baptist and Allen church of Christ (Campbellite), editor of The Gospel Advocate. In it they debated the origin, faith and practice of their respective churches.

The original discussion was published as periodical installments. Thomas N. Thrasher’s Encyclopedia of Religious Debates (Volume 2 E-L, 2016, p. 63) notes that the discussion appeared in two periodicals – The Baptist and Commoner (Little Rock, Arkansas) and The Gospel Advocate (Nashville, Tennessee). Volume LXIX, No. 47 (November 24, 1927, p. 1) of The Gospel Advocate carries the first affirmative of the Grime-Allen Discussion with this note, “This debate is running simultaneously in the Gospel Advocate and in the Baptist and Commoner, Little Rock, Ark.” In The Gospel Advocate it ran in six consecutive issues in November and December, and was likely then printed in a similar series of dates in The Baptist and Commoner. The book itself was not printed until 1928, with late Spring being a likely possibility.

The background of the discussion is this.

An April 9, 1925 article by Allen in the Nashville Banner included the statement that “when a man becomes a Methodist, a Baptist, a Presbyterian, etc., he becomes something more or less than a Christian,” that these were “human denominations,” and that only the church of Allen was New Testament Christianity. This drew a response from Grime.

In 1925, Grime and Allen engaged in correspondence, Grime desiring a written discussion and Allen an oral debate.

 In 1926 (“Preface” dated November 11, 1926) in Blood Before Water and Christ Before the Church, J. H. Grime writes about wanting a written discussion on the following propositions

“The church with which, I, J. H. Grime, am identified, or of which I am a member, known by my brethren as a Baptist Church, is scriptural in origin, doctrine, and practice.”

“The Church with which I am Identified, or of which I am a member, known to my brethren as the Church of Christ, is scriptural in origin, doctrine, and practice.”

In 1927, James A. Allen published Alias “Campbellism”: Review of “Blood Before Water and Christ Before the Church” by J. H. Grime – a booklet reviewing Grime’s booklet (“Introduction” dated July 14, 1927).

Apparently, after these events, Grime and Allen were able to agree on a discussion through two religious periodicals. By June 14, 1928, the material had been published in book form by J. H. Grime.

“New Books Reviewed” in The Baptist and Reflector includes a review of “A Discussion, between J. H. Grime and James A. Allen. Published by J. H. Grime, Lebanon, Tenn. $0.25.” The Baptist editor reviews the booklet very positively.

“This is a compilation of a discussion held recently by the Rev. J. H. Grime of Lebanon and James A. Allen of the Gospel Advocate. It is well arranged and show the two sides of a controversy that has been wages since the days of Alexander Campbell. Dr. Grime holds to the position that Baptists are the successors of apostolic Christians. He back his thesis with history, scripture, and sound logic. Dr. Allen presents the usual arguments for the disappearance of New Testament Christianity and its restoration during the first part of the nineteenth century.” The Baptist and Reflector, Thursday, June 14, 1928, p. 13.

The first page of the booklet reminds the reader “This Discussion Was First Published in Papers, And is Now Put in This Form.”

Worldcat.org and Abilene Christian University list this booklet as “Publisher not identified” and “Place of publication not identified.” This can be cleared up with the booklet itself and the The Baptist and Reflector review, which shows it is published by J. H. Grime, Lebanon, Tennessee. The date can also be ascertained – 1928. A Discussion Between J. H. Grime and James A. Allen could only have been published after the paper discussion was closed in December 1927, and the booklet was “new” in June 1928.

The title and writing on the cover follows:

A DISCUSSION

BETWEEN

J. H. GRIME (Baptist)

LEBANON, TENNESSEE

AND

JAMES A. ALLEN

(Editor Gospel Advocate)

NASHVILLE, TENNESSEE

PRICE 25 CENTS

John Harvey Grime, obituary

 

Baptist and Reflector, September 25, 1941, page 5

(you should be able to click on and enlarge this image)

Flippant language

“We may come down to our own level, as it were, when reasoning with others about their conduct or their attitude to the dread solemnities of life. But no one of a reverent spirit can fail to be distressed by the flippant language in which ‘the glorious Gospel of the blessed God’ is sometimes ‘huckstered.’”

Sir Robert Anderson

Be gone unbelief

When we speak of “Amazing Grace,” it seems almost everyone knows John Newton (1725-1807). However, it also seems that many are unaware of the hundreds of other hymns he has written.

The following hymn, written by Newton, is Hymn 37 in the section “Conflict” in the 3rd edition of Book III of Olney Hymns, pp. 315-316. It carries the heading “I will trust and not be afraid.” It is presented in seven 8-line stanzas of 5s.&6s. meter. It is more common today, perhaps, to present the hymn in 4-line stanzas of 10s.11s. Over the years, the hymn has been paired with various tune, including Hanover and Lyons.

XXXVII. I will trust and not be afraid.

1. Begone unbelief, 

My Saviour is near,

And for my relief 

Will surely appear:

By prayer let me wrestle,

And he will perform,

With Christ in the vessel, 

I smile at the storm.

2. Tho’ dark be my way, 

Since he is my guide,

’Tis mine to obey, 

’Tis his to provide;

Tho’ cisterns be broken,

And creatures all fail,

The Word he has spoken 

Shall surely prevail.

3. His love in time past 

Forbids me to think

He’ll leave me at last 

In trouble to sink;

Each sweet Ebenezer 

I have in review,

Confirms his good pleasure 

To help me quite through.

4. Determined to save, 

He watched o’er my path,

When Satan’s blind slave, 

I sported with death;

And can he have taught me 

To trust in his name,

And thus far have brought me, 

To put me to shame?

5. Why should I complain 

Of want or distress,

Temptation or pain? 

He told me no less:

The heirs of salvation, 

I know from his word,

Thro’ much tribulation 

Must follow their Lord. (u)

6. How bitter that cup, 

No heart can conceive,

Which he drank quite up, 

That sinners might live!

His way was much rougher, 

And darker than mine;

Did Jesus thus suffer,

And shall I repine?

7. Since all that I meet 

Shall work for my good,

The bitter is sweet, 

The medicine food;

Tho’ painful at present, 

’Twill cease before long,

And then, oh! how pleasant, 

The conqueror’s song! (x)

(u) Acts xiv. 22. (x) Rom. viii. 37.

Newton relates two lines to specific Scripture texts.

• Acts 14:22 ...we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
• Romans 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

Additionally, an allusion to Romans 8:28 is found in the first two lines of the seventh stanza.

• And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Five Questions, and other links

The posting of links does not constitute an endorsement of the sites linked, and not necessarily even agreement with the specific posts linked.

• Article: Five Questions About the Majority Text Posed to its Contemporary Evangelical and Reformed Advocates -- “An article that appeared in Bible League Quarterly, No. 494 (July-September 2023): 19-23.”
• Booklet: Why John 7.53-8.11 is in the Bible: A Defence of the Authenticity of ‘The Woman Taken in Adultery’ Account in the Text of Holy Scripture -- “(PDF or Print) The new booklet is an expanded version of my notes from the 2021 lecture I did at Metropolitan Tabernacle in London.”
• FBI returns 1527 letter from conquistador three decades after it was stolen from Mexican archives -- “The letter was signed about eight years after Cortés’ expedition from Spain to Mexico that eventually led to the Aztec Empire's downfall.”
• God And Scripture -- “Absolute truth must have an absolute source. What or who might that be? The God of the Bible is presented as the absolute source of truth.”
• God And Scripture 2: Inspiration -- “We must notice that inspiration is how God’s Word was given to us. Inspiration does not continue today because God’s Word is completed.”
• God And Scripture 3: Preservation -- “The doctrine of the perfect preservation of Scripture is first based on the nature of God’s Word.”
• James White-Thomas Ross Debate Review #3: Epistle Dedicatory -- “His claim is astonishingly inaccurate, as the new debate review videos demonstrate.”
• Make Your Shelf Useful -- “Since 1995, Cheatham’s nonprofit Useful Wild Plants has published four volumes, each counting 600 or more pages and collectively weighing nearly 20 pounds.”
• Modernism is not an acceptable alternative to postmodernism -- “Almost five years ago, I already warned about Peterson, still hoping he might change. He hasn’t and today he’s doubling down on his modernistic approach.”
• Off the Hook? -- “The snake dangles at the shaft’s end, out of striking distance, while you figure out what to do next.”
• Sharon Methodist, org. 1886 | Taliaferro County -- “In the remote crossroads town of Sharon, Georgia are three very historic church houses. This one, Sharon Methodist, is an architectural jewel built in the Queen Anne style.”
• White Plains Methodist Church, Greene County | Org. circa 1817 -- “The settlement around the town and its church congregations predates the incorporation of the town by about thirty years.”

The anti-missionary missionary

My attention was recently brought to the article about Elder Daniel Parker on Wikipedia. Last year I warned how that “Wikipedia” is now “Woke-ipedia” – propelled by political correctness to expel historical exactness. Nevertheless, the historian in me struggled to ignore and not call attention to this problem concerning Parker, and will hope it is corrected.

Under the section “Religious Leadership” in the Parker article, at least two places need attention and correction. The article states:

“Parker believed that the non-white races who were the targets of foreign missions were people who were descended from the wicked seed of the serpent. He stated that since ‘God would save His own children, and since the children of Satan were predestined to eternal punishment, any kind of mission plan would seem ridiculous.’”

1. “Parker believed that the non-white races who were the targets of foreign missions were people who were descended from the wicked seed of the serpent.”

I am skeptical of this claim. It is unsourced. If it comes from a statement by Parker, it needs to be substantiated. Though it may appear that the footnote refers it back to Max Lee’s thesis “Daniel Parker’s Doctrine of the Two Seeds,” I found no such claim in Lee’s work. The practice of the Pilgrim Church belies such a doctrine. The church received non-whites into membership by experience & baptism, by relation, and by letter. The early minutes of the church, during Parker’s lifetime, are still accessible. Here are some examples from the minutes:

“Saturday, June 13th 1840. The Church met and in order proseded to business. 

“1st. A Black man by the name of Thom. Presented a letter to the Church of recommendation from his master Mr. Wm. J. Hamblitt, and informed the Church, That he was receved in to a Baptist Church at Barefeet meeting House, and was Baptised by Elder Luster, in the State of Tennessee, which some of the members of the Church knew, That he took a letter from that Church, and joined a Church in the western district Called Spring Hill Church, from which he took a letter, but from some cause, left his letter, and some of his close behind, with an expectation of getting them, but as yet has failed, The Church being satisfied, Received him into Fellowship, as by Relation, yet claimes the right to his letter should it come to hand Ajorned”

“On Sunday, 23d [August 1840], Received a Black woman by the name of Hannah by Experience, and Baptised her.”

“Friday September 3d 1841...3d. Granted a letter of dismission to Sister Hannah a Black woman living in San Augusteen County”

These examples show the church receiving and dismissing black members, which seems unlikely if the Wiki-page claim is true.

2. “He stated that since ‘God would save His own children, and since the children of Satan were predestined to eternal punishment, any kind of mission plan would seem ridiculous.’”

This quote is in error. “God would save His own children, and since the children of Satan were predestined to eternal punishment, any kind of mission plan would seem ridiculous” is a quote from Max Lee’s thesis (p. 13). It is not a quote of a statement made by Parker. This is an assessment of what people said about Parker, or thought about what he believed – “it would seem according to the traditional understanding of Parker’s two-seed views that no mission plan whatsoever was needed.” Lee considered the “the traditional understanding of Parker’s two-seed views” to be deficient.

It is true and correct that Daniel Parker opposed the missionary system devised by the Baptist Board of Foreign Missions. However, he did not oppose the preaching of the gospel. In fact, if one reads the entire thesis without cherry picking, we find that Max Lee concludes that Parker’s views have been misunderstood (for several reasons, some of which were Parkers own fault).[i] On page 85 Lee writes, “Lest these non-elect have an excuse for their unbelief, Parker urged that the gospel be preached to men everywhere, including the non-elect.”

All told, my opinion is that Daniel Parker’s doctrine of the two-seeds is his attempt to explain the existence of evil without making its origin come from God.

Max Lee concludes that “an examination of Parker’s writings reveals, contrary to the traditional view, that Parker was not opposed to missions. Rather, he was opposed to any mission plan which was not under the government and direction of the churches, an example of which was the societal mission plan of the Triennial Convention. Parker’s opposition was against this plan of the Triennial Convention and not against missions proper.”

Where Pilgrim Church meets is a little over an hour’s drive from where I live. I have visited there several times. The church no longer holds the “two-seed” doctrine as taught by Daniel Parker, but identifies itself as and fellowships with Absolute Predestinarian Primitive Baptists.

---

[i] Lee proposes three factors contributing to the misunderstanding: (1) “Parker’s critics ordinarily attacked him instead of his doctrines. As a result, Parker was belittled, while his doctrines remained relatively unknown,” (2) “Parker contributed to his own misunderstanding by resorting to sarcasm and ridicule, particularly in the pages of the Church Advocate,” and (3) “the scarcity and unavailability of his writings, which has forced a reliance on men such as John Mason Peck and R. B. C. Howell, both of whom opposed Parker’s antimissionism.” He further reasons that “the descriptions of Parker and of his antimission motivation presented by Peck and Howell respectively have discouraged further investigation.”

Sacred Music

At modern singings most of our time is taken up in singing. The exceptions are breaks, prayers, and memorial lessons (and sometimes a brief welcome). In older times it was common include a lesson or lecture by a music teacher. Near the close of the North East Texas Sacred Harp Convention (August 30-September 1, 1940), Professor Bob Bartlett lectured on “Sacred Music,” followed by his leading The Crucifixion, The Resurrection, and Weeping Mary.

The convention that year was held at Pleasant Hope Church in Cass County, Texas, near Huffines, Robert Edmond Bartlett, President, and Herschel Grady McLeod, Secretary.

The Citizens Journal (Atlanta, Texas), Thursday, September 5, 1940, p. 5

Black Sacred Harp Singing in East Texas

The black communities and churches in East Texas promoted and held Sacred Harp singings. Sometimes they were found in unexpected places. The Tri-State Spiritual Sing-Song and Homecoming at the So-So Park in Timpson, Texas (June 19, 1941) included a friendly contest between the Sacred Harp and Little Book singers of Panola County.

Timpson Weekly Times, Friday, April 11, 1941, p. 5

There was a Panola County Convention, as well as a Rusk County Convention, and, according to the following newspaper article, an East Texas Colored Sacred Harp Singing Convention.

Henderson Daily News, Tuesday, July 16, 1940, p. 5

For more on the subject, see “Black Sacred Harp Singing Remembered in East Texas,” Donald R. Ross, Juneteenth Texas: Essays in African-American Folklore, Texas Folklore Society, Denton, TX: University of North Texas Press, 1996, pp. 15-19.

Sacred Harp Singing in Timpson, Texas, 1928

A report of the East Texas Sacred Harp Singers meeting at Timpson, Shelby County, Texas in 1928. This was a distinct convention from the East Texas Sacred Harp Convention which was organized in 1855. East Texas Sacred Harp Singers was a 5th Sunday singing convention. R. J. Behannon (1877-1953) of Lufkin was the president at this time. The Convention met in Timpson July 28-29 at the Methodist Church building.

It appears that the largest group of attendees outside of Shelby County came from neighboring Nacogdoches County. Folks were also in attendance from Angelina County, Cherokee County, Harris County, Panola County, Polk County, Rusk County, as well as Louisiana and Arkansas (and perhaps a few other places I may have failed to recognize). This article and other newspaper articles indicate that the Timpson Chamber of Commerce was instrumental in inviting the convention and heading up the local organizing for it. Committees provided by the Chamber included a reception committee, transportation committee, and ice water committee.

My grandfather and great-grandfather (J. T. Vaughn and M. L. Vaughn) were in attendance.

Timpson Weekly Times, Friday, August 3, 1928, p. 6

The reader can rely on the word

Thomas Newberry (1810-1901) was a Plymouth Brethren minister in England. In the late 1800s he edited and published The Englishman’s Bible. The following quote is credited to Newberry in several biographical sketches of his life.

“As the result of a careful examination of the entire Scriptures in the originals, noticing and marking where necessary every variation of tense, preposition, and the signification of words, the impression left upon my mind is this, not the difficulty of believing the entire inspiration of the Bible, but the impossibility of doubting it … The godliness of the translators, their reverence, the superiority of their scholarship, and the manifest assistance and control afforded to them by the Holy Spirit in their work, is such that the ordinary reader can rely upon the whole as THE WORD OF GOD.”

The Old-Time Songs

“The Old-Time Songs” poem describes a (perhaps imaginary) singing that uses Christian Harmony, Sacred Harp, and Temple Star song books. It is not unrealistic to believe a singing in 1913 could have used all three of these popular books. However, the page numbers and words (though real song words) do not correspond with the songs in these books on the numbers mentioned. Perhaps “D. G. B.” simply intended to be humourous.

The Athens (Georgia) Banner, Sunday, August 17, 1913, page 4

Will the Waters Be Chilly was never in The Christian Harmony, so far as I know, but it is a good song.

Voulgaris Vindicated, and other links

The posting of links does not constitute an endorsement of the sites linked, and not necessarily even agreement with the specific posts linked.

• Voulgaris Vindicated by Leading Greek Expert -- “Babiniotis is a Greek linguist and philologist who has written several books about Greek grammar, etymology, and other Greek language-related topics.”
• Stablish or Establish -- “Establish and stablish — is there a difference?”
• South Liberty Presbyterian Church, Taliaferro County | Org. circa 1820 -- “In 1820, several members of Liberty Church in Wilkes County petitioned to form a new church: South Liberty. The reasons according to the Liberty members were ‘distance, bad roads, and high water in winter.’”
• Second Sacking -- “Six years after the Alamo, Mexican troops twice stormed San Antonio.”
• John the Baptist’s Diminishment of His Own Water Baptism in Matthew 3 -- “John’s unwillingness to baptize the Pharisees and Sadducees because they did not show fruit unto repentance teaches against any saving effect of baptism.”
• Edward F. Hills and the grammar of the Johannine Comma -- “...the hypothesis that the Johannine Comma is an interpolation is full of difficulties.”
• “Dumb Dogs” in the Pulpit: Spurgeon on Borrowed Sermons -- “Spurgeon was no pragmatist. Though God could work through a plagiarizing preacher, He did so despite the preacher’s dishonesty and laziness.”
• County Line Baptist - Org. 1861 | Butts County -- “History tells us that the church house you see above was built in 1886, however the congregation was formed in August of 1861 in an old school house at this site.”
• A Step-by-Step Primer for Church Discipline -- “...when the Bible talks about church discipline, it involves the spiritual care of people.”
• 11,575 Free Southern States Online Cemetery and Burial Records -- “Cemetery records and cemeteries, in general, are a very large part of our family history and are a significant pursuit for many genealogists.”

Rain when we need it.

It’s hot and dry out there, but, then again, it is summer in East Texas.

My paternal grandfather used to say, “We will get rain when we need it.” Some people seem to think that is an absurd assertion, and that we often need rain before we get it. Granddaddy died when I was a little boy, so his climate theology was mediated to be me by others. I never had the chance to ask him what he meant. However, I have thought about it a lot and here is what I think he meant.

Granddaddy was not some rich man living on gilded streets. He was a farmer whose life and livelihood depended on the sun and rain in proper proportions at the suitable seasons. Perhaps he thought it is not so much the condition of the soil but the condition of our heart that determines what we receive. And, ultimately, that it is not the opinion of man but the will of God that determines what we need. He who hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, who maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and who sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust is the determiner of need.

Sometimes what we want is not what we need, as any good parent knows.

Answering William’s Thirty Questions

Thirty questions on our ecclesiology, by William Thornton, posted on SBC Voices.

William is a retired SBC pastor who is quite amiable, with whom I have interacted in a couple of forums (Baptist Life & SBC Voices), and who I would describe as slightly to the right of moderate. On the Baptist Life forum, which tended very moderate to liberal, he stood out as conservative there.

The subject of women pastors is one of high alert in the SBC at the moment. Discussions abound. In their June 2023 Convention the delegates voted to uphold the decision of the Executive Committee, which sees churches with women pastors in violation of the Baptist Faith and Message (the office of pastor/elder/overseer is limited to men as qualified by Scripture) and not in friendly cooperation with the Convention. One was the high-profile Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, founded by Rick Warren. A lot of current SBC discussion is nuanced on positions that may not be pastoral but has pastor or minister in the job title, or positions that are pastoral, but do not have pastor or minister in the job title (e.g. director, instead).

I am not affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention. Some of the questions are really outside my interest, since they are pretty specific to the SBC. On the other hand, I noticed few people at SBC Voices seemed willing to tackle them head on. Rather, they just post what they want to say, throwing something in the general vicinity of the questions. So I thought I would do so, primarily to exercise my slumping brain on the subject of Baptist ecclesiology (a very important subject).

The thirty questions and thirty answers:

1. If a church has multiple pastors, who is the pastor and how does the congregation express this?

If a church has a scriptural plurality of pastors (elders) then they would express it by calling them all pastors equally. The problem is that many churches that have multiple pastors usually have an hierarchy of employees called “pastors” while employing many of them in positions that have little resemblance to biblical pastoral ministry.

2. Is the fresh-faced nineteen-year-old summer student pastor the same as his ultimate supervisor?

I have no idea what a “summer student pastor” is, and less inclination to find out. It does not sound like a biblical pastoral position to me.

3. The SBC spent decades with a pastor/deacon model. Those decades were the greatest in our growth. Why is that model so easily discarded?

I am not SBC, so probably not highly qualified to answer this question. The one SBC church with which I am most familiar concerning their “pastor/deacon” model may have employed it successfully, but not scripturally, in my opinion. The business of the church was conducted in the private deacon’s meeting and then presented to the church for approval by “perfunctory” vote (see William’s question 24). I think that model should be discarded.

4. How much of our ecclesiology can be traced to American affluence and liberty?

I believe that American affluence and political views on freedom, liberty, and democracy have influenced the ecclesiology in Baptist Churches in the U.S. I have no idea how much, but do believe it has had some negative effect – in the sense of looking to the “U.S.” as a model rather than the Bible.

5. If churches didn’t have buildings and budgets would church governance look different?

I expect so, at least somewhat. Nevertheless, our bigger problem is the more general lack of focus on biblical faith and practice.

6. Is it fair to say that Southern Baptists, once megachurches and their celebrity pastors moved to the multi-site model, changed their ecclesiology to accommodate that?

Yes, I think megachurches and celebrity pastors have negatively affected the ecclesiology of Southern Baptists, as well as other Baptists in the U.S. A church meeting in several locations does not meet the biblical definition of a congregation.

7. Concomitantly, why do we always avoid the title “bishop” when referring to the pastor who has charge of multiple churches?

I do not think this is new. It is my own experience in the churches with which I have been associated in my lifetime, that they have generally either avoided or neglected the use of the word “bishop” to refer to pastors. This was well before megachurches, multi-site churches, and (mostly) celebrity pastors. It is my opinion that this scriptural word was avoided mainly because of its misuse by other denominations and in a desire to steer clear of misunderstanding – that “elder” and “pastor” would carry less baggage than bishop in most cases.

8. If any kind of woman pastor is constitutionally prohibited, don’t we have to get into the business of functional job duties?

No, just do not have women in pastoral job duties. However, it is problematic that some churches give women the same functional job duties they would consider pastoral, but skirt the issue by calling them by some “title” other than pastor.

9. If we delve into job duties are we not then forced to decide on the age of males at which females are prohibited from teaching, supervising, and directing?

Yes, I would say that some churches give women authority over males at certain ages, which, if they were called pastors, to which they would object.

10. Is there any ecclesiastical component other than women as pastors that would receive the level of scrutiny that we are now giving to churches?

Is there? I don’t know. Should there be? Yes – divorce and remarriage in the ministry being one of them. And all the other qualifications should be resurrected with proper emphasis. It is a fact that many churches have punted the biblical qualifications in favor of instead judging one’s experience, educational, and executive qualifications, and such like.

11. Is the focus on women motivated in large part by the ease at which men can distinguish between a woman and a man?

Probably not. Hopefully Southern Baptists still can distinguish, but many in our society cannot profess to tell the difference between a woman and a man.

12. Is there any other qualification of pastor that is likely to receive such scrutiny? Why not?

Traditionally, “husband of one wife” has received a lot of scrutiny, but that bird seems to have flown the coop. See also question 10.

13. If a church has an executive pastor, why can that position not be filled by a woman?

What is an executive pastor, biblically? If it is a biblical position to be filled according to the qualifications of I Timothy and Titus, how can it be filled by a woman?

14. What does a worship pastor pastor?

What is a worship pastor, biblically? If it is a biblical position, wouldn’t all pastors be “worship pastors” whose qualifications are set forth in Timothy and Titus?

15. What other major statement of faith, creed, or confession utilizes forward slash phrases?

Huh? This was initially meaningless to me, until I found that William refers to the 2000 Baptist Faith and Message using slashes in Article VI – “pastor/elder/overseer.” William always like to insert a little humor.

16. How much sense does it make to declare that your church can cooperate with other churches that have female directors or ministers but not cooperate with those who have female pastors?

A local church is autonomous, and so can cooperate with whomever she wishes. However, biblical cooperation is based on biblical principles. Are there any biblical principles for female directors, female ministers, or female pastors? What is the difference? I assume William is probably hinting at a hypocrisy hidden in there being no difference in function, only in name.

17. One of our few success stories of this century is the increasing proportion of African American and other ethnic churches who identify as SBC. Does it concern anyone that we may totally undermine these successes?

How is this being undermined? William does not say. We are not SBC, so this question is somewhat immaterial to us. Our church, as a local church, fellowships with “ethnic churches” based on shared biblical faith and practice rather than our supporting a common program.

18. If a mixed adult group has man/woman team teacher and the main teacher is the woman, is this a problem?

Yes, it sounds like a way of circumventing not having a woman teach adult men (i.e., by calling in a team).

19. How long has it been since your church prohibited women from speaking in a church conference?

We do not prohibit it, though they do not run the church business. We do not prohibit men who are not pastors from speaking in church conference either. Prohibiting women from speaking in conference is more an issue of one’s interpretation of 1 Corinthians 14:34 than with the issue of women pastors. I know some churches that do prohibit this, based on that Scripture in 1 Corinthians. Is William trying to imply churches are inconsistent to refuse women pastors while allowing them to speak in church conference? We also allow women to sing and testify.

20. If our constitution says a woman may not be “any kind of pastor” is it acceptable to have other titles, e.g., minister, director, assistant?

This seems to be rooted in a progressivism that desires to create positions that the Bible does not create or recognize as Scriptural offices.

21. What is a co-pastor?

I suppose it is according to what the church that uses it means. Sometimes it has the sense “together; joint or jointly; mutual or mutually” (suggesting equality); “sometimes it has the sense “auxiliary, subsidiary” (suggesting subordination). A group of equal plural elders would be “co-pastors” in a sense according to the first definition. A group of “under-pastors” serving under a the direction of a senior pastor would be “co-pastors” according to the second definition.

22. If a church has pastors, elders, and deacons should they be excluded?

What? Excluded from what? I do not understand this question.

23. If deacons have administrative authority, and in most SBC churches this is the case, how is this unbiblical?

Biblically, deacons are servants of the church. If the church assigns them administrative duties, then they could be biblically serving the church. If they have administrative authority over the church, it would be unbiblical.

24. Is a church legitimately congregational if only perfunctory votes are taken?

Perfunctory is likely a matter of perspective. Do you think some other church’s votes are perfunctory, and does that church see that operation as perfunctory? Perfunctory in this context likely means “performed merely as a routine duty.” The votes of the church I mentioned in question 3 seemed “perfunctory” to me. However, it is likely that their “routine” approval of the deacons’ motions and seconds could turn to something else if the deacons proposed something they did not like. So, though I did not like their system, and perhaps they were not congregational carefully enough, but in the end still exercised congregational oversight.

25. Should all women who have affixed to their church position the term “pastor” be considered carnal Christians, ipso facto disobedient, and out of fellowship with God?

They would be disobedient to the extent they disobeyed the biblical faith and practice. Same as a believer who refuses to be baptized, or one who deliberately chooses sprinkling over immersion, and so on.

26. How has our American system of itinerant ministry shaped our ecclesiology?

Here I am assuming William means the common practice of preachers moving from church to church (often upwardly), rather than ministering long-term in one church (especially the church in which they were raised and ordained). To me, a true itinerant minister is not a pastor. However, that has often be the effect in churches. A pastor is called, becomes acclimatized, and the church soon gives him to the boot. Or, a pastor is called, becomes acclimatized, but soon finds a much better offer which “calls” him away. I am not sure this has shaped our ecclesiology in terms of definitions (though perhaps so), but I do believe it has negatively shaped our ecclesiology in practice.

27. Is ordination a consideration in any discussion of women pastors or ministers?

Yes, it should be. If women should not be pastors (and they should not), then they also should not be ordained.

28. What determines whether or not speaking is preaching? Is it the furniture involved or the gender of the speaker?

Preaching is an act of public biblical proclamation and teaching. Furniture and gender do not determine it; the Bible is our rule of faith and practice.

29. How long before Lottie, Annie, and Bertha lose their high standing in today’s SBC?

I have no idea, but have always thought it a bit odd to have all the big offering pushes in the SBC named after women.

30. Do you think folks in the pews care about all this?

Yes, in our pews in our church they do care.

Louis Gaussen on Preservation

(6.) Last, by a new assemblage of other facts, not less striking and incontestable, all of which attest, with equal force, the same continued agency of the Most High for the preservation of the New Testament.

422. This doctrine, we affirm, is already proved, for every one who believes in the inspiration of the Scriptures, by the simple consideration of the divine wisdom and veracity.

This is almost a question of the plainest common sense. Only suppose that a clever watchmaker, by a wonderful exertion of his abilities, prepares and finishes, at great expense, all the parts of a perfect chronometer, which is intended for the use of his beloved son in his travels to foreign parts; shall we not admit, as we would an axiom, that, having thus made it, he would not intentionally leave it out of doors exposed to all the accidents of the weather, or to injuries of passers-by? And who, then can admit that the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ would cause His only Son to come down from heaven for His chosen people, without guaranteeing for them the record of His life and teachings? or that He would have commissioned His apostles to write their books by the Holy Spirit, without taking care to preserve in aftertime so precious a deposit? that He watched over these books while they were being written, and ceased to watch over them when once they were given to the world? that He cared no more about them when the churches had received them from the hands of the apostles? and that, in consequence, they have been transmitted from age to age, from country to country, from one generation to another, abandoned henceforward, like any common book to all the hazards of eighteen centuries? Would such negligence be in harmony with the principles of His government; with the care which He takes of the Church to the end of time; with His declarations of the value of the Scriptures, and the permanent certainty of their declarations; with His denunciations against the crime of adding anything to them, or taking anything from them? He numbers the hairs of our head, and would He not number the books of His oracles? He does not allow a sparrow to fall to the ground without His permission, and would He allow the Scriptures to fall from heaven to the ground, which have been given by Himself for the universal gathering together of His elect? What good to give them divinely inspired, unless He transmit them divinely guarded? Why preserve them from all error, if not preserved afterwards from all dangers? He who said, “Every word of God is pure, .... add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee,” will He not keep a jealous eye upon it? And if, by the mouth of Paul, He pronounced an anathema against any who should preach “any other gospel than what His apostles preached,” would He afterwards permit this condemnation to fall on the entire collection of their oracles, by allowing inspired writings to be lost from it, or forged writings to be admitted into it? This is not possible. And we must all admit that, the inspiration of the Scriptures being recognised, our doctrine is already proved by the simplest knowledge of the wisdom and veracity of God.

Francois Samuel Robert Louis Gaussen in Le Canon des saintes ecritures au double point de vue de la science et de la foi (The Canon of the Holy Scriptures from the Double Point of View of Science and Faith) 1860, pp. 430-432.

Since Jesus Christ, my Lord and my God, ‘created all things in heaven and earth, and by him all things subsist,’ (Col. i. 16) I said to myself, how could I doubt that He has taken care of His own revelations, whether in giving them at the first, or in their subsequent preservation and transmission? Our only business, was to study them for the purpose of regulating each one’s faith, and conscience, and life.

Francois Samuel Robert Louis Gaussen in Le Canon des saintes ecritures au double point de vue de la science et de la foi (The Canon of the Holy Scriptures from the Double Point of View of Science and Faith), p. viii.

Bible preservation and Deism

It sadly has become quite popular in supposedly conservative Christian circles to claim that God’s inspired word has been preserved by natural causes no differently than the words of Genghis Khan, Hugo Grotius, or John Gill. Notice William W. Combs in the “The Preservation of Scripture” (pp. 9-10):

“…the preservation of Scripture is not different in method from any other ancient book God has determined to preserve, as, for example, Caesar’s Commentaries on the Gallic War—both Scripture and Caesar’s work have been preserved providentially, by secondary causation, by essentially ordinary human means.”

Harry A. Sturz, in The Byzantine Text-Type and New Testament Textual Criticism (p. 38), wrote, “God…was under no special or logical obligation to see that man did not corrupt it.” Others like Daniel Wallace and Edward Glenny go further than Combs. For example, Wallace says, “I don’t hold to the doctrine of preservation.” The essential difference of Wallace and Combs is not in the historical process or end result, but rather the unwillingness or willingness to attach any theological significance to preservation (i.e., as a “doctrine”). Combs writes: “…we must distinguish between belief in a doctrine of preservation and, simply, belief in preservation” (pp. 6-7). It seems to me that the natural and incidental view of the preservation of Scripture has superseded the providential and supernatural view as the mainstream position among the conservative evangelical classes. Regretfully, we have allowed many foreign ideas to flood in and water down our once strongly-held absolute support of an inspired, infallible, and preserved Bible.

While listening to Jeff Riddle’s presentation on biblical preservation (How Has God Preserved His Word? at the 2023 Trinity and Text Conference of the Trinitarian Bible Society), something struck me about the natural view of the preservation of Scripture. It seems somewhat akin to Deism. In the religious theology or philosophical position of Deism, the Creator does not intervene or interfere in human affairs. In the naturalistic view of preservation, the Creator does not affect or intervene in the history of the transmission of his inspired word.

I meditated on this from my own standpoint as a sometimes “creator” of written records. Unlike God, I obviously cannot produce an errorless and infallible document. However, in the course of its transmission I take an interest in it. I try to correct any errors I find. When and where able, do not leave it to its own devices. When I find an error online, I correct it. If it is something in print, if able, I will correct when I reprint. On the other hand, we are led by the naturalistic and incidental view to accept that God is either disinterested or powerless in the face of the historical transmission of his word – or both! He does not care or is not able to care? Who can believe it?

Does not God rather by his infinite power and wisdom uphold, direct, dispose, and govern not only the inspiration, but also the preservation, of his Scripture by his wise and holy providence, according to his infallible foreknowledge and the free and immutable counsel of His own will: to the praise of the glory of his wisdom, power, justice, infinite goodness, and mercy.

Did Eve lie?

“Some have said the woman [i.e., Eve, Genesis 3:3, rlv], by her answer, added to the words of the Lord, in His commandment, for there is no record of His having told them not to touch the tree. However, this is hardly acceptable. If the Lord did not expressly command them to touch the tree, it was, nevertheless, clearly implied. If they should not eat it, neither should they touch it. And if the woman here lied to the serpent she had already sinned, and it was not necessary for her to continue to the taking of the forbidden fruit to have fallen from her state of innocency.”

J. W. Griffith, Lectures on Genesis, Henderson, TX: 1984, p. 9

Worship the Lord

O worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness: fear before him, all the earth. Psalm 96:9

1. O worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness!
Bow down before him, his glory proclaim;
With gold of obedience and incense of lowliness,
Kneel and adore him, the Lord is his name.

2. Low at his feet lay thy burden of carefulness,
High on his heart he will bear it for thee,
Comfort thy sorrows, and answer thy prayerfulness,
Guiding thy steps as may best for thee be.

3. Fear not to enter his courts in the slenderness
Of the poor wealth thou wouldst reckon as thine:
Truth in its beauty and love in its tenderness:
These are the offerings to lay on his shrine.

4. These, though we bring them in trembling and fearfulness,
He will accept for the name that is dear;
Mornings of joy give for evenings of tearfulness,
Trust for our trembling, and hope for our fear.

5. O worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness!
Bow down before him, his glory proclaim;
With gold of obedience and incense of lowliness,
Kneel, and adore him, the Lord is his name.

This hymn is commonly paired with the tune Sanctissimus (12.10.12.10.) by William H. Cooke (1820-1912). The hymn is by John Samuel Bewley Monsell. He was born in Ireland in 1811 and died at Surrey, England, in 1875. He married Anne Waller in 1835. She died in 1885, and they are both buried at the Guildford Cemetery in Guildford, Guildford Borough, Surrey, England.

Monsell was ordained in 1835 and served several churches in Ireland before transferring to England in 1853. He was rector of St. Nicholas Church in Guilford from 1870 until his death  in 1875, which was due to a construction accident at the church building. 

11 book collections of his hymns over 37 years are: 

• Hymns and Miscellaneous Poems, 1837
• Parish Musings, or Devotional Poems, 1850
• Spiritual Songs for the Sundays and Holy Days throughout the Year, 1857
• His Presence, not His Memory, 1855/1858;
• Hymns of Love and Praise for the Church’s Year, 1863
• The Passing Bell; Ode to The Nightingales, and Other Poems, 1867
• Litany Hymns, 1869
• The Parish Hymnal after the Order of The Book of Common Prayer, 1873
• Simon the Cyrenian; and Other Poems, 1873
• Nursery Carols, 1873
• Watches by the Cross, 1874

These collections contain about three hundred hymns by Monsell (some are repeated in various editions).  In addition to his prolific poetical work, he also issued prose works, including Our New Vicar and The Winton Church Catechist.