tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20166943.comments2024-03-18T15:28:19.721-05:00Ministry and Music - Seeking the Old PathsR. L. Vaughnhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10992710377193518029noreply@blogger.comBlogger3054125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20166943.post-87337087860142322472024-03-18T15:28:19.721-05:002024-03-18T15:28:19.721-05:00Hear! Hear! Yours is an essential point often miss...Hear! Hear! Yours is an essential point often missed among independent Baptists. <br /><br />Oh, that we would understand that each of Christ's assemblies is His established teaching institution and then dedicate ourselves to working within and through the assembly to which He has added us so as to see His objectives accomplished. Interestingly, He says, "Be not many masters [teachers]", but each elder must be "apt to teach". I take it, then, that it does not take many teachers in any church (assembly) to accomplish His goal, but that each elder / pastor / overseer (bishop) must indeed be apt to teach and must both preach and teach the Word.<br /><br />I sometimes think we have orators as elders, but not too many who are apt to teach. Can someone be apt to teach if he is not apt to learn? If he despises learning from godly men and despises writings that document the doctrinal and practical journeys of godly men, I doubt he is apt to teach.<br /><br />I'm sure there is variety among the assemblies that belong to Christ, but I think the orators have gravitated to the pulpits and the teachers to the seminaries. <br /><br />Another problem is that some say they are following the Bible's model by training in house (colleges run by churches), but they are actively recruiting students to their church-based colleges from other churches, thus depriving the elders / pastors / overseers of those churches from having the influence they should have in training the next generation.<br /><br />Practically speaking, my exposure to independent Baptist churches leaves me thinking that many of the ones I've been around would not do a good job training the next generation. Sometimes you have to go outside of your immediate circle to gain knowledge. And sometimes that can be done in the Holy Spirit filled life with little more than good books and good mentors.<br /><br />Those are today's cogitations from a would-be cogitator. <br /><br />God bless you, Brother Vaughn! And may He continue to work such that His churches (assemblies) escape the many perils to their godly functions.<br /><br />E. T. ChapmanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20166943.post-43257147848370148812024-03-08T23:57:43.919-06:002024-03-08T23:57:43.919-06:00very cool, i love this hymn, thanks for the lyrics...very cool, i love this hymn, thanks for the lyrics (i always thought it was "praise the lord the sun still reaches, deeper than the sin")Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20166943.post-80917543836263401282024-03-07T20:24:09.101-06:002024-03-07T20:24:09.101-06:00Matthew, I do not use the term apparently as you a...Matthew, I do not use the term apparently as you are used to seeing it from/by Burgon. I was just using it to mean the Greek text that churches and Christians generally and traditionally used up until the Critical Text began to displace it. I am unsure of how textual critics might use it, but I am writing for church folks, who I think (hope) understand what I mean. I am not personally overly concerned about the different terminology, but I would not normally use Ecclesiastical Text or Confessional Text unless in context of someone else using the terminology. I have found that there is some problem that someone will find regardless of which terminology is used.<br /><br />Hope that helps.R. L. Vaughnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10992710377193518029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20166943.post-47072211546531186522024-03-07T19:46:30.068-06:002024-03-07T19:46:30.068-06:00RLV, Is there any reason why you (personally) thin...RLV, Is there any reason why you (personally) think it's necessary (or beneficial) to term the TR (whether the entire corpus or an individual edition) as the "Traditional Text?" CT vs. MT vs. TR certainly gets the point across clearly—and without the needless confusion regarding the "Traditional Text" of Burgon (who essentially coined the term of his own theoretical text as well as popularized the term within the NT text critical conversation). Technically speaking, the "Traditional Text" is *not* the TR (or KJV), and the position of Burgon is (demonstrably) *not* equal to TR (or KJV) defence. I mean...how many names/labels does one really need? viz. the Textus Receptus (TR), Received Text, TR defender, (TRO), Confessional Text, Ecclesiastical Text, Confessional Bibliology, KJV defender, (KJVO), etc.M. M. R.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20166943.post-82541561124289865502024-03-07T15:16:46.152-06:002024-03-07T15:16:46.152-06:00E. T. Chapman, yes, isn't that interesting -- ...E. T. Chapman, yes, isn't that interesting -- almost anything but that God has preserved the words he inspired!<br /><br />M.M.R. (Matthew Rose, I presume), thanks! I will take a look at what Burgon says.R. L. Vaughnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10992710377193518029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20166943.post-23238739000580472842024-03-07T14:15:50.595-06:002024-03-07T14:15:50.595-06:00Burgon has a chapter (XIV) on this topic within &q...Burgon has a chapter (XIV) on this topic within "CAUSES OF CORRUPTION" (i.e. "Corruption by the Orthodox") that may interest you, RLV.M. M. R.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20166943.post-57772604516823021192024-03-07T09:56:09.406-06:002024-03-07T09:56:09.406-06:00Thanks, Brother Chapman. Good to hear from you.
I...Thanks, Brother Chapman. Good to hear from you.<br /><br />I pray the Lord blesses me to listen to my own admonition.R. L. Vaughnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10992710377193518029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20166943.post-46050167347339291992024-03-06T21:01:29.225-06:002024-03-06T21:01:29.225-06:00Great admonition, Brother!
E. T. ChapmanGreat admonition, Brother!<br />E. T. ChapmanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20166943.post-80614705923509357852024-03-04T10:44:11.119-06:002024-03-04T10:44:11.119-06:00very true. thanks.very true. thanks.Alex A. Hannanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20166943.post-15339636243748691232024-03-01T22:41:11.911-06:002024-03-01T22:41:11.911-06:00Amen.
I think there are two major problems relate...Amen.<br /><br />I think there are two major problems related to this. Most Christians (at least in the West) have given up on being Bereans, and the scholars love to have it so.R. L. Vaughnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10992710377193518029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20166943.post-73386680642280876182024-03-01T15:34:21.924-06:002024-03-01T15:34:21.924-06:00a ploughboy with a Bible he can read and that he b...a ploughboy with a Bible he can read and that he believes will always be more knowledgeable, helpful and beneficial than the mountain of scholars in the institutionsAlex A. Hannanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20166943.post-61580892799183223312024-02-26T18:31:33.739-06:002024-02-26T18:31:33.739-06:00I was 9I was 9Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20166943.post-69906808993999212332024-02-25T07:35:51.358-06:002024-02-25T07:35:51.358-06:00There are two companion posts about Logsdon, Lockm...There are two companion posts about Logsdon, Lockman, and the NASB. Asking whether you had read or heard what Logsdon said was <i>within that context</i> (and which is transcribed in the other post), not about other things he may have said. An anonymous someone posted there, but since the post is anonymous, I do not know whether it is the same person (you) or a different person. As far as what he said about Erasmus, I probably heard it 2 or 3 years ago, when I was working on this, but I do not remember it. I do not have the time or interest to look it up at the moment, therefore do not intend to comment on something I do not remember what was said or the context in which it was said. Ultimately, whether Logsdon's views breached on heretical do not affect the fact of whether or not he worked with Dewey Logsdon on obtaining the rights to the ASV and being in on the groundwork of what the Lockman foundation was doing with it. Your comments have reminded me that I collected a little other historical data on this that I have never posted and need to do so. Thanks.R. L. Vaughnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10992710377193518029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20166943.post-61913553444055247572024-02-25T06:22:46.210-06:002024-02-25T06:22:46.210-06:00Friend, I am not changing the discussion from the ...Friend, I am not changing the discussion from the point of your posts about Logsdon. I responded to your comment "Have you read or heard what he said?". I said "I heard the recording" and then I made a comment on what was in that recording.<br /><br />Secondly, I clarified what I said about it would be useful to list side-by-side "all the verses" they think the NASB got from a corrupted source. I was not talking about a side-by-side parallel of two English translations of "every" verse in the Bible.<br /><br />I do agree with your thinking -- more is written about Logsdon than he actually said to bolster some KJV-Onlyists points. Yet, some of what I did hear Logsdon say about Erasmus really breached on heretical. Things I don't believe Erasmus would agree with.<br /><br />Cheers !<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20166943.post-56076871898955107322024-02-25T00:08:12.144-06:002024-02-25T00:08:12.144-06:00Anonymous, it appears you are changing the discuss...Anonymous, it appears you are changing the discussion from the point of my posts about Logsdon. Let me bring it back. Both sides of this matter, in my opinion, are less than honest and have misrepresented the facts. Fact is that Frank Logsdon was a friend of Dewey Lockman and helped him in obtaining the rights to the ASV, which was used by the Lockman foundation as the basis of the Amplified Version and the New American Standard Bible. The Lockman foundation has obfuscated about this. Logsdon was not directly involved in the translating of the NASB, as some have claimed. Some KJV-Onlyists, in trying to bolster their point, have made various inaccurate affirmations about Logsdon that Logsdon himself never made. The major takeaway is only this -- someone who was involved in the groundwork of and was in favor of the NASB later turned away from and rejected it. It really does not prove anything else.R. L. Vaughnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10992710377193518029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20166943.post-39053962296921526722024-02-24T21:32:00.638-06:002024-02-24T21:32:00.638-06:00Yes, I heard the recording. In response to the que...Yes, I heard the recording. In response to the question "Where did Erasmus get his manuscript ?" Logsdon said "Erasmus didn't have to have a manuscript..." !!!! He continued "...holy men of old were borne along by the Holy Ghost ...". Saying Erasmus was borne along like the old Testament writers and New testament writers ... !!!! Like the KJV is a re-inspired version since the 1st century.<br /><br />That is heresy ! Sounds like something Joseph Smith would have said.<br /><br />I know how to compare two English translations. I was saying it would be useful for a KJJV onlyists to list side-by-side all the verses that they think the NASB got from a corrupted source.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20166943.post-22835809243836955282024-02-23T21:09:58.139-06:002024-02-23T21:09:58.139-06:00That is a very good question. Just what is it that...That is a very good question. Just what is it that drives the text critics to try to “recreate” that they don’t think they can know if they ever did!R. L. Vaughnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10992710377193518029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20166943.post-6137752453008440722024-02-23T12:43:49.819-06:002024-02-23T12:43:49.819-06:00does it not make you wonder, in between the waves ...does it not make you wonder, in between the waves of perplexity, what drives this zeitgeist of achieving the "ausgangtext" - is it just the thrill of the chase? is it the belief in finding some hidden key that will tell us we have been doing it wrong all the this time? is it fun? is it truly believing that the words were lost and it is up to them to find them? is it a DIVERSION from doing what you 'SHOULD BE DOING' for the Lord? is it JOB SECURITY?<br />and I am sure there is a plethora of other possibilities.<br /><br />what is damning is the effect it has on the body of Christ as this poisonous thought process continues to drip, saturate and flood the modern Christian mind.<br /><br />Sound words anyone? and Faithful words? and the form thereof? I believe that was what Paul instructed the body of Christ to hold fast to. As you stated in your conclusion, I believe the body of Christ did hold on to the sound words, in order to hold sound doctrine, so we can all speak the same thing.Alex A. Hannanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20166943.post-32824920263013124502024-02-21T21:27:58.916-06:002024-02-21T21:27:58.916-06:00Yes, quite so.
I thought it was particularly inte...Yes, quite so.<br /><br />I thought it was particularly interesting to find these comments applying Matthew 5:18 to Scripture, when it is a common modern evangelical clamor that this text cannot apply to Scripture.R. L. Vaughnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10992710377193518029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20166943.post-30245388159135995512024-02-21T21:15:51.245-06:002024-02-21T21:15:51.245-06:00Said well: "…continually preserved…"
E. ...Said well: "…continually preserved…"<br />E. T. ChapmanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20166943.post-52683525429852232642024-02-21T11:30:32.938-06:002024-02-21T11:30:32.938-06:00Anonymous, do you mean the comments in the newspap...Anonymous, do you mean the comments in the newspaper clipping? Yes, both the AMP and NASB are revisions of the American Standard Version (1901). However, those comments were made in 1958, when Logsdon was very much on board with obtaining the rights to the ASV and revising it into a new Bible. In contrast, the audio of the negative comments about the NASB are made around about 20 years after he had changed his mind about the NASB.R. L. Vaughnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10992710377193518029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20166943.post-39449468219476443682024-02-21T06:17:34.123-06:002024-02-21T06:17:34.123-06:00Logsdon's comment on the Amplified seems to co...Logsdon's comment on the Amplified seems to contradict his concerns about the NASB. Didn't both translations use the same manuscript texts ?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20166943.post-36286281601230208062024-02-20T07:54:44.572-06:002024-02-20T07:54:44.572-06:00Amen. That is a nice little hymn that had previous...Amen. That is a nice little hymn that had previously gone unnoticed to me.R. L. Vaughnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10992710377193518029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20166943.post-14065564536529292202024-02-19T20:29:18.360-06:002024-02-19T20:29:18.360-06:00I love that one! I wish our church sung a hymn lik...I love that one! I wish our church sung a hymn like that that at the end of each service. Thanks for going to the effort to post useful things like this.<br />E. T. ChapmanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20166943.post-78266451561644748652024-02-17T09:00:47.259-06:002024-02-17T09:00:47.259-06:00If only people would respect the actual words God ...If only people would respect the actual words God gave as much as they honor the translations thereof, I think spiritual perception could improve. I believe a good translation of God's words has the authority of the original, but I disagree with the idea that any vernacular translation of the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek is the final authority. God is surely able to develop full spiritual maturity in anyone who has access only to a translation of His words. But I see no basis in His scriptures for a translation superceding the words He gave.<br />E. T. ChapmanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com